To simulate or not to simulate

Hi everyone, my first post on the Tabs forum here!

When it comes to making left/right turns regardless of whether or not we're turning from major to minor or minor to major the National Standards are (for me) clear; trainees should not stop before making the turn unless giving way to oncoming traffic.

How do you 'square the circle' between the National Standard and the obligation to ensure that we observe each trainee making confident, consistent and competent turns, including stopping if necessary and positioning on the road?

I'm thinking of a situation here where a trainee on a level 2 road may not encounter any oncoming traffic on any of their attempts to execute the turn.

Hi Phil,
We advise our instructors when a rider is having their first go at riding a turn to stop at the correct position, be it a left in, out or right turns even if their is not another vehicle passing.
We beleive by doing this for the first turn the rider then knows exactly were they need to stop if a vehicle was passing. This also ensures the instructor knows, that the rider has taken in the explanation and demo and understands the correct stopping position.
For future turns we then ask the rider to treat the junction as live and only give way if needed to.
We were picked up on this during our QA visit and told we must not simulate. But we would rather be safe and have the knowledge that both rider and instructor know what to do and expect. If ever there was a case when a cyclist was hit after not being shown were to stop and was injured during a Bikeability session, I would not like to be the instructor/scheme involved in this.
Good question though and I bet differing opions will now come forward. Remember though, once the instructor is happy the rider knows the correct stopping position, we then treat the junction as live. You could possibly use other riders to simulate traffic if really quiet.

it is important to see riders interacting with drivers a lot during L2 training, however teaching people to give way means that they understand that they do not need to stop if there is no one on the main road. Even if there is not a driver you can assess whether or not a trainee is prepared to stop and is checking the road. Stopping behind the give way line may not be the best place to observe the main road

Thanks everyone - it's really interesting to hear that similar issues are encountered in different areas.

Using other riders to create traffic is something I've seen in action. I think that works quite well. If you have a large group (12 maybe) half can observe and look for positive points and learning points whilst the other half ride. Then they swap. On a small circuit that creates the conditions needed to require giving way. It's just important to emphasise that the trainees don't follow each other round in a big snake.